C A A S

[megaloptera]

My Male Texas and my Female Escondido currently have produced a batch of fry. I was interested what they may look like as adults and searched the web. I came across a website that was opposed to the idea of crossbreeding cichlids. This is only my second time that I have ever had babies in my tank, so the event was pretty exciting.

What is the club's stance on raising hybrids? or you personal views?

[ahud]

I think as long as you do not sell, give or distribute the fry in any way that it is OK to experiment with hybrids. Having said that, I myself have never messed with hybrids because I know that if I raised some I would not want to terminate them if for some reason I could not keep them anymore.

just my 2 cents.

[D-007]

I don't think the Club has a particular stance regarding hybrids (but I could be wrong), however I'm sure there are personal views on the matter.

I'll share mine since I'm posting.

I am not particularly fond of hybrids and don't really encourage it; I'd even cull any youngsters that are hybrids if I ever get them. That being said I have seen some pretty nice looking hybrid fish and even have 1 myself - just because my wife likes the look of it. It will never get the chance to breed either.

The only thing I would 'advise' about allowing hybridisation in your tank or tanks is to keep them to yourself and for your own enjoyment/pleasure. Share pictures of them if you wish but please don't try to sell them off or give them to an LFS so that they end up selling them.

I know that getting fish to breed and then getting babies is both exciting and one gets a sense of accomplishment. I certainly offer my congratulations on your success. Perhaps, you could get a proper pair of either the Texas or the Escondido and then breed them, that would be an even better achievement. These you could then sell off or take to an LFS for credit.

Apologies for it ending up being a long reply and once again these are my thoughts on the matter and I'm not forcing you to anything; maybe just a friendly nudge

[KeithAtFintastic]

hybrids are generally discouraged and frowned upon, though some achieve commercial success (eg flower horns, blood parrots).

Livebearer hybrids from the early days of the hobby have become so accepted that they are mostly not even recognized as hybrids - just about all non-wild swords, mollies and platies are mixtures of two or more species. The wagtail mutation is a swordtail trait, while the crescent or "Mickey Mouse" pattern is a platy trait, but each was crossed into the other species to get wag platies and mickey mouse swords. Most of the popular colors came first in platies, then were crossed into swordtail lines.

Similarly, the mollies in the hobby today have varying amounts of Poecilia latipinna, P. velifera and P. sphenops in their ancestry. Many of today's hobbyists would cringe at such indiscriminate crossbreeding, but in the 20th century it was how many of our most popular breeds were created.

My opinion is that as long as hybrids are properly identified, and never released into the wild, they do no harm. Whether you consider them a testament to the breeder's art, a happy or unfortunate accident, or an abomination that should not see the light of day is, I feel, a matter of taste, not ethics. Tattooed, dyed and injected fish, OTOH, I think are A) cheating and B) cruel.

[Juand15]

My opinion = Hybrids = BAD.

if you want to see what they end up looking like just keep you 1 of them and Feed the rest or dont Distribute to anyone else.

[Matt]

Wait i'm confused. I thought Escondido was a variety of Texas cichlid? I know there is Herichthys carpintis and Herichthys cyanoguttatus though so which are we talking about?

Either way I wouldn't have a problem with the cross between the two, let me explain why....or confuse you with my opinion.

Theres a thin line to cross IMO. For years and years i've been totally against hybrids but then took a step back and saw myself as sort of a hypocrite. I don't believe a hybrid between to distinctly different fish should exist, but those with close enough origins....why not? This is all after really reading into Discus history and taxonomy. Whats a Heckle cross discus? Just that, a cross with a different species. Theres only one real Symphysodon discus (Heckle Discus). The cross part is that of either S. aequifasciatus (green) or S. haraldi (blue/brown) clearly according to science as a totally different species. So in essence you have a hybrid, but a hybrid of very close origins and that can occur in nature (S. haraldi and S. discus). Still looks like a discus, eats, breeds, and acts like a discus.....if a duck quacks then...? Whats the problem? Maybe I just wanted the center bar to show up, maybe a certain color pattern or certain striations. Maybe I wanted the shape of this one and the color of that one. Its still a discus. Am I creating hybrids when I cross a discus back to wild stock to strengthen the lines? Technically, and scientifically, most likely yes.

Some argue that today's discus are just colorforms rather then different species. I would agree with this as well, with most strains today you would be very hard pressed to find any wild blood in them. However their original origins surely included some. So technically a hybrid, though argument can also be made for just a colorform now.

I've also seen some absolutely spectacular Altum x Scalare angelfish hybrids. What it comes down to for me is how closely related they are. If the cross is close, like 2 types of wild discus and can give me an amazing outcome with traits that I want then I have no problems with it. But if i'm crossing something like a convict with a red devil.....thats when I draw the line. Nothing good can come out of mixes like that.

I don't know, just my rambling opinion.

[zero]

My $0.02 is that hybrids are perfectly normal. When two similar spp. share the same habitat than cross breading happens, granted this isn't something that happens in rapid succession but it does happen. However when hybridization happens in your tank I would air on the side of staying away from it just because there is the chance that you could muddy the gene pool of that particular sp. If you do decide to raise the hybrid fry than just be smart and follow the suggestions of those who are trustworthy and know what there talking about. Introducing a hybrid into the gene pool can cause big problems, just like when introducing non-native spp. into native rivers and ponds.

I wish you luck with your fish and hope you make the right decision for you.

[megaloptera]

Thank you for your oppinions. I will heed your advise. I plan on raising the fry to help perfect my skills with raising fish. I will grow out a few to see what they will look like.

They will never be sold or sent out in to the LFS community.

I have great respect for this club and the aquarists who help provide individuals like me, with fish I would never see/dream of raising. All my cichlids have been purchased from club members or at the last two auctions.

I am eager for the next auction and may bring a few of my pure salvini babies to sell.

[zero]

[trechills]

my opinion is hybrids get better gas mileage and are better for the envirement.

[D-007]

LMAO ... good one trechills

[Nighthawk]

Don't Sell Hybrids???? Are you nuts??? Have you seen how much flowerhorns go for??? I say do it!!! Just don't let them or any other non native fish into the waterways.